I agree Gene! This shows that we are on our way back to being a nation that cares more about its people than corporations and millionaires.

Crappy argument Good Year. The economic issues in Europe have nothing to do with their health care system. Don't starts spewing that "oh we're so scared of socialism" baloney. I don't buy it and it's folks like you that make me sure about my stance. And maybe if we can improve public education, future generations who feel burdened will be able to spell it correctly.

Oh brother. Hyperbolate much?

Good Year. Please don't label me. Did I say I was a "Big Government" person? I am an efficient government person. I am an effective government person, I am a just government person, I am a human- centered government person. Size has little to do with what constitutes good government.
Tuna Man, "even those who decided not to work"? DECIDED NOT TO WORK? It's not the same now. If there are people benefiting from social services because they have DECIDED not to work and not because they CANNOT work it is a failure of the administration of the system not the idea itself.

We have to stop incentivizing welfare. When it is easier to say no to extra hours at work because it will reduce your section 8 housing allowance, the system is broken. When it is easier to say no to extra hours at work because it will reduce your earned income credit, the system is broken. When it is easier to get pregnant agian then go back to work, the system is broken. I work two jobs and have massive medical bills and insurance, but still have massive bills in excess of $50,000, and I can't get one cent of help from the state. But is I was a woman all I need to do is get pregnant, then I am all set. The system doesn't force people off of it, it really incentivizes it, and teacher the next generation how to work it.

Sure, just like the rest of us have been doing for years. I pay property taxes, the bulk of which support a school system, that I don't use.
And our Federal taxes have been paying for other peoples medical bills for years.

So what's your point?

You pay property taxes because you bought a house. If you don't buy a house you don't pay property taxes. If you buy a car you pay taxes on that. If you don't buy a car you don't pay taxes on your neighbors car. If the government says I have to buy a Chevy volt, and it wouldn't surprise me if they did, and I buy an suv, then do I have to pay taxes on the value of the Chevy volt and the suv? We all know that buying a volt is good for the world since we are all going to melt quicker than the wicked witch of the west from global warming. Paying tax on something I DON'T buy is a completely new concept.

The tax you are paying on somthing you didn't buy defays the cost of the health care the rest of us are paying for you. When you don't buy health insurance the rest of us have to pick up the tab. Stop being such a free loader and pay your own way. If you don't buy a house then we should not have to pay for your apartment. If you choose not to buy a car we should not have to pay for your transportation. But if you dont buy health insurance you expect us to pay for your health care.

katherine,
You can try to frame this as a new "tax" on something you don't buy all you want. It doesn't change the fact that the rest of us have been picking up the tab for the uninsured for years. And if you are one of those that chose not to pay for health care insurance in the past, welcome to the real world. Time to pay up!

In your way of thinking, those of us with insurance should be forced to pay for those that didn't buy it.

I am not a freeloader and never have been. Thought I was a free person, but not so sure anymore.

And by the way, McMahon. I didn't frame it as a tax for something you don't buy. The supreme court did.

katherine how is this any different then the state telling you you have to buy car insurance. The government tells people what the can and can't do all the time they are called laws. Just because you want to be a parasite on society doesn't mean you have the freedom to do it.

Excuse me Robert, I am not a parasite. I am not concerned for myself. I am concerned for my country and everyone's freedom. Including yours. This bill is a disaster.

How about the freedom of affordable health care.

Well said A really concerned citizen!

Yah and the average life expectancy in 1950 was 68.2 today it's 79. If you could get a doctor to come out to your house today it would cost you between $500 to $1000 try paying that. My doctor sent to diabetes education clases I sat in a romm with 10 other people while a nurse talked about different foods for four hours. Insurance did not cover it and I got a bill from the hospital for $600.00 times 10 the hospital got paid $6000.00 for a nurse to talk for four hours. I hope she got paid well because all the hospital supplied was a room.

Yea Shill well its going to cost double that every year now until they get to the rationing like all the other country's have done with this in the end, or just go belly up like greece and cut like heck out of things or raise taxes so all you do is support the government not yourself like the EU. Hell of way to live. (not) Welcome to freebee's from those who work for those who don't.

What everyone leaves out is the fact that the population of the US is larger than all of the EU combined. This program is a nightmare that will destroy what the country was founded on, namely, SELF RESPONSIBILITY. Fortunatly It can now be straightened out by more intelligent people than those who never read it hopfully.

Because all the exemptions given to big business and Unions that do not even have to do anything 2018 will bankrupt everyone before we get 6 years down the road.

Should add that this has never been even tried on a population of elible people more than 60 million, we have 300 milion. The larger it is the worse it will be as all government programs are, and yes they do ration in Britian and france the largest of population in the EU.

I laugh at so many who have not even read this bill when it passed, you have no clue what is in it. You think this thing is hunky dory, with out even knowing the what it entails. Yes I have read it over 20 tims or more now, and a lot of it still is ambiguous and just plain BS. There are so many ifs ands and buts it boogles the mind. Even the administration experts have stated many times it will end up leading to rationng of healthcare.

Irrelevant now? What about in 2000, when they stole they election for Bush?

Thats total BS J but then you new that.

No Jack, it's quite true.
Too many morons out there confuse socialized medicine with socialized government.

What do you think SS and medicare/medicade are? Same for public education. Socialized programs.
And the only complaint anyone had about SS before Obama was that they were worried they wouldn't get theirs.

How is it a penalty if the Supreme Court says it is a tax and why will be enforced by the IRS who will now be hiring the 16,000 new agents to enforce this according to the law

Not everyone gets SS or Medicare insurance. Medicaid is a State program that the Court said the law cannot control. They threw that part out.

Public Education is a right given to the States by the Constitution.

No where does the Constitution say healthcare is a right.

Driving is a privilege not a right. States can make you have insurance, because they maintain the roads and owning a car is a choice. There’s no federal mandate for vehicle insurance.

I think all this hoopla over this is putting the cart before the horse. My opinion is Roberts did something pretty slick here with the ruling of it being a tax. All day the Administration has been saying that it is not. Know why?

You cannot sue the government over a tax until you pay it, then and only then under the law can you get redress. This is far from over, for those reasons & many others.

I will say, having read the Health bill many times, there are some good things in it. However those can be done separately and should have been. This will be a nightmare if it goes through. It has never been tried anywhere with a population of 320 million people, think about that? This was rushed through with out even being read. Read it a few times, you will be amazed at what’s in it J. Many things have nothing to do with healthcare at all.

The tax is the penilty for not buying health insurance what is so hard about that to understand.

Jack,
Do me a favor, please list the article and section of the U.S. Constitution that says "Public Education is a right given to the States by the Constitution." You want to play the literal game? You might want to re-read the Constitution.

Joe,
do you understand wht happens when an un-insured person goes for treatment? They get hit with a huge bill and can not pay. Then, the Federal government picks up the tab. Guess where that money comes from.

This government provided healthcare service was to be paid for by amandator tax on the maritime sailors (a little more than 1% of a sailor's wages),the same to be withheld from a sailor's pay and turned over to the government bythe ship's owner. The payment of this tax for health care was not optional. If asailor wanted to work he had to pay up.This is pretty much how it works today in the European nations that conductsocialized medical programs for its citizens - although 1% of wages doesn't quitecut it any longer.The law was not only the first time the United States created a socializedmedical program (The Marine Hospital Service) but was also the first to mandatethat privately employed citizens be legally required to make payments to pay forhealth care services. Upon passage of the law, ships were no longer permittedto sail in and out of our ports if the health care tax had not been collected by theship owners and paid over to the government - thus the creation of the firstpayroll tax in our nation's history.When a sick or injured sailor needed medical assistance, the governmentwould confirm that his payments had been collected and turned over by hisemployer and would then give the sailor a voucher entitling him to admission tothe hospital where he would be treated for whatever ailed him.

While a few of the healthcare facilities accepting the government voucher were privately operated, the majority of the treatment was given out at the federal maritime hospitals that were built and operated by the government in the nation's largest ports.

Jack, you do know that the "Tax" is only paid by those who choose NOT to have healthcare, right? I thought you said you had read the law? Qualified Healthcare plans exempt citizens from paying the penalty / tax / 30 pieces of silver / or whatever Fox news is calling it these days.

I must also point out that if you had actually read the law like you claim, you would have noticed that the lie about 16,000 IRS agents was nothing more than Fox propaganda. In fact, the law specifically says that "the IRS is explicitly prohibited from using the liens and levies commonly used to collect money owed by delinquent taxpayers, and rules out any criminal penalties for individuals who refuse to pay the tax or those who don't obtain coverage."

And to further set the record straight IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman testified before a hearing of the House Ways and Means Committee March 25 that the IRS won't be auditing individuals to certify that they have obtained health insurance.